Dr. Francis Wang chose early retirement at the age of 62 to devote his time to supporting Buddha Gate Monastery and the goals of spreading Buddhism. In 2005, Francis encouraged his wife Julia to retire at 60. Both had retired from professional careers at the University of California Lawrence Livermore Lab, he as research chemist and she in the area of computer science. They have lived in the Danville area for over 28 years.

CC (Cathy): How long have you been members of Buddha Gate Monastery?

FW (Francis Wang): We’ve been here since day one. On October 10, 2000, we were there at the party to welcome five monks and Abbot Jian Hufrom the Chung Tai Monastery.

CC: What was the congregation like? Where did they come from and how did they know about it?

FW: Buddha Gate’s membership grew by word of mouth and through ads in the newspaper about the meditation class. As far as I know, no other monastery teaches Buddhism in such a systematic way [as Buddha Gate], that is, beginning with the fundamentals, the nomenclature. Gradually going from simpler to more difficult understanding of the Sutras. I think this is the uniqueness of the Chung Tai’s way of teaching Buddhism, which begins by explaining a basic understanding of Buddhism. When I was a kid, my mother preached Buddhism to us. I think I can accept it easily. But I really didn’t understand some of the fundamental concepts of Buddhism. I found that the classes here were very helpful.

CC: Were there English classes at the time?

FW: Yes. There were English classes then, but at first they were small compared to the Chinese classes. Students also came from Fremont, Sunnyvale, the South Bay, Cupertino… really far away. Later we grew rapidly especially the English group.

CC: Have you seen the membership at Buddha Gate increase during the eight years you’ve been here?

FW: In the beginning classes, there is always a surge in enrollment, but it gradually drops.

JW (Julia Wang): The problem is they [beginning students] want to know about meditation with the American fast-food culture. But for Buddhism you must learn slowly, gradually. After one or two sessions, if they feel they haven’t made much progress, they just stop. But we now see more and more people coming. They also contribute, and do all kinds of volunteer work.

FW: The Western participants, the English-speaking students, have heard or read about meditation and now here [Buddha Gate]is a place for them to learn. They know meditation can help you relax, eradicate your anxiety, make you more peaceful. What they didn’t understand is this isn’t really meditation. It's the mind…the important thing is the mind. I really believe if you stay in the class long enough, and there are English-speaking students who stay for years and continue to stay, and for those who stay, they learn.

Even I’ve been here eight years and I don’t get much about enlightenment. I’m not even close. Getting enlightenment is much harder than getting a PhD. Even a PhD takes 20 years. Do you think you can be enlightened in 2 months? “I didn’t get anything,” is what they think. It’s because your mind is still the same. Still really turbulent.

CC: And to get to that point where we can act, not out of anger, but act out of compassion, is the point at which we are a changed person, but that takes many, many steps. We are still engaging in understanding what is ignorance, anger, false ego… we’re trapped there unless we work hard to understand. That is why coming back here is so important.

FW: Greed, anger and ignorance have been with us for eons. We can’t get off that so fast. If you don’t even know about it, certainly nothing helps. If you know about it… Oh yeah, this is my anger, this is my greed, this is my ignorance. When people ask if you are a Buddhist and if you believe in causality. [I say] of course I believe in causality. But do you think about it all the time? No, you see that’s the problem; we don’t think about it.

CC: Has being a Buddhist changed you?

FW: Of course, tremendously. Everything I do now, I think in terms of causality. Causality is the cornerstone of Buddhism. That’s most important. For example, if I see a person giving me a hard time in the old school of thinking – an eye for eye attitude, thinking that I’ll get even with you. If you think in causality then you believe he‘s doing this to me because I did it to him in a previous life. If I forgive him, if I pay him back, and I’m not angry, then it’s over. We don’t owe each other anymore. Therefore I’m not angry. Of course, this is easy to say… and requires deep commitment and practice.

CC: Let’s say you believe in the law of causality and your children are a mess and you are very unhappy. And you understand causality. What can you do if you want to reverse things?

FW: Perhaps you cannot reverse it. It’s certainly not easy to do this. If you believe in causality, there are two things you can do. One, you can figure out a way to turn life around. It may take time to turn the relationship around by doing some good deeds. But the more important thing if you do believe [in causality] and you understand he’s getting even with you, you do not get angry. I’m not saying this is easy. An angry person only makes things worse.

CC: What do you think about this Julia?

JW: He [Francis] actually practices this. Before attending classes, I didn’t have any religious background. But since Buddha Gate, I came to attend the meditation class together with him. At that time, I didn’t totally believe in Buddhism. I went to class and simply followed the teachings to be a good person and be good to other people. This part I could follow. Amazingly, after practice, I gradually began to believe more and more. Yet, my belief was still not deep enough. How do I know it? My mind changes according to events. Here’s a true story. During my father’s last four months, my mother and sisters and I got into an argument on how to take care of him. The majority followed me and Francis. Francis reminded me to treat each person like an only child and we must look positively. In my past life I must have done something bad to them. I must not get angry and plant any bad seeds, so any relationship ends in this life. Francis helped me a lot to open my mind. I’m a much better person than eight years ago. I used to get into an argument with my daughter and Francis reminded me that in a previous life my daughter and I perhaps were in a close relationship, but I had some bad seeds planted and so now I have to go through this. It’s important not to get angry. Francis tries to tell me to look at things from the point of view of causality. Why does this happen to me?

CC: I wanted to ask you how important is it to view Buddhism from the perspective of a family. And it seems to me that as a married couple you have been able to reinforce your belief in Buddhism. You try it out and discuss it at home.

FW: The sooner a person accepts Buddhist causality [the better]. There are many kinds of causality. Science has causality. Christianity has causality. If you believe in God that is the cause and the consequence is you go to heaven, and if you don’t you go to hell. Well, it’s not that simple. But the Buddhist causality is that everything that happens, there is a cause. Buddhist causality is very different from fate. [You say] this is my fate and there is nothing I can do about it. [For example] My kids don’t give me a hard time and they get good grades, get into Stanford, UC Berkeley, and have a good life. And it’s because I did a lot for my kids therefore they’re great. This is not always true. Some people don’t do anything for their kids, and they grow up to be great persons. What I’m trying to say, is if you take this view seriously early [in life], you can create change. The most famous example that all Chinese know is [in the writings of] Liao-Fan Yuan, a high-ranking official in Ming Dynasty who wrote a book for his son. How can you change your life? This is causality. OK, bad seeds were planted long time ago. But bad seeds can be covered by stone. They’re still there, but the good deeds you do can now dominate your life. So you see causality is not fate in which you do nothing [to change a situation].

CC: Do you think people come to religion or Buddhism because they are suffering?

JW: Yes, there is a lot of suffering that cannot be explained. Most important “cause” [reason] for me to become a Buddhist is [to understand ]why am I so lucky? Why are my children so lucky? Why the children born in Rwanda or the untouchable class so unfortunate? That can only be explained by causality. I am a scientist. I must find a way to prove causality. In science when you want to prove something you need an instrument, like a microscope and mathematics, a tool for scientists. And you have to have the right knowledge. In Buddhism that tool is Samadhi which is mind-training. How the mind reaches stillness. It just like how you learn mathematics, you start with arithmetic in grammar school, algebra in high school and calculus in college, and your tool gets better and better. Zen meditation is so important [to learn]. That is the tool.

Let me give you an example with Louis Pasteur, nobody believed him at that time that something so tiny as bacteria could kill you; not until we had the microscope, could we see for ourselves and try experiments. Right now people who are not familiar with Buddhism or Buddha’s causality will say the same thing. Who believes that? Few people take reincarnation seriously. If you have a tool, you will see it. In Buddha’s time, there were over ninety religious cults, and many people questioned him. He told them how he got to the conclusion of the Four Noble Truths and proving Buddhist causality. With Samadhi and contemplation he got this. I assume, if you are in deep Samadhi, if you have it, and we don’t because our mind is like a 20-foot ocean wave and not clear and still as a mirror. But Buddha said you can do it and you will know.

CC: My next question is why is it important to sustain a consistent relationship with Buddha Gate Monastery?

JW: From my own experience, if you come regularly to the monastery and get into a routine of doing that, you will continue to improve yourself. If you stop you may tend to withdraw. The second thing is, as you do volunteer work, and you work on your “blessing field,” this will help to open up and increase your wisdom. Seven years ago, when I read an article about Buddhism I couldn’t look at it more than five minutes before putting it down. I had no interest. Now when I receive the Chung Tai Magazine with teachings by the Grand Master, I can read all ten pages from the first page to the last. Now I can understand what the Grand Master is talking about. Seven years ago I couldn’t do that. I do feel it is important to come to Buddha Gate and volunteer your time. You will not see results in two or three months. It takes years. You have to come and work on your field of merits gradually. Your wisdom will come with it. We have this Buddha Nature, but it has been blocked. Now I can read the Sutra because I have worked on it gradually. Then you’ll see you are different.

CC: Francis, as President, how do you see your role in cultivating the goals of Buddha Gate?

FW: Whether I’m president or not, the title doesn’t make much difference. Again, when I’m thinking of anything, the first thing that comes to mind is causality. Causality is my guidance. Also in order to cultivate anything you must have enough blessings. I have time, a pension, and I am not stressed money-wise; I don’t have a lavish life style, but I don’t have to worry about money. I have a lot of time. My pension is enough and since I have enough time, those are blessings. I can do whatever I want to. That was the consequence. What was the cause? When you have this, how can you take advantage of this? When you talk to people, they might say, “ I spend time working in the soup kitchen,” which is good. “I make regularly donations to Red Cross to earthquake and flood victims, and so forth.” Those are good too. However, coming to Buddha Gate, I am supporting the long-lasting [spreading and profligation] of Buddhism. Because the main function of this place is to spread Buddhism, to make Buddhism last longer, and to have more people believe it, it has a much bigger impact. So to me, it’s probably worth more my time than working in the soup kitchen. I’m not saying don’t work in the soup kitchen, continue working. But for me, I’m thinking if more people understand causality they would understand why they became homeless, for example. What is the cause they are homeless. Hopefully, they can do something to change their life from the causality point of view. If you gave someone a bowl of rice, it is more valuable if you teach him how to grow rice rather than just giving. Of course growing rice is long term, changing your life is long term, but in the short term you still need that bowl of rice, so they are both important. You know our time is limited, our effort and money is limited. We can work on one thing, not everything. So to me, supporting Buddha Gate whether I’m president or not is irrelevant, and I will spend more time and money to support it.

CC: If we want to spread Buddhism, teaching is critical. I feel privileged to hear about your commitment to Buddhism and Buddha Gate. When can we offer others the opportunity to hear you?

FW: I learned all this from Shifu. If people stay in Buddhism class, you will learn.

CC: From the perspective of a lay person, listening to how Buddhists make decisions is very important. I find it very helpful.

JW: Originally, Francis was planning on retiring in 2003, but he retired early in 2001at 62 and I retired at 60 in 2005, and he said come to Buddha Gate to work for your future life. I had worked as a computer scientist. It is a blessing that we have a pension and time and to work as volunteers. We regularly donate to other organizations and support Buddha Gate so others can learn about Buddhism. After two or three years of volunteering and taking classes, I wrote a number to make a monthly donation to support the Dharma Support Association and he [Francis unexpectedly] was totally shocked.

FW: As a trained scientist, when you come in contact with Buddhism, you ask, how do I know it is the right thing to believe in or not. In Buddhism class, I so profoundly enjoyed it…that this is truth. How do I convince others? If I could show you in a science experiment that you had a previous life, and what was it and why did you marry this person in this lifetime. How come your children were born in your family and not my family? If I can show this, then everyone could believe it. But I can’t. Even if someone could say to me, you and your wife met 250 years ago in a previous lifetime. How do I explain those things to my friends as a scientist? In science, there are such examples. If you don’t know mathematics, you can’t tell if Einstein is correct or not because all his work is based on mathematics using principles of physics. You can use mathematics to get to his equation. If your mathematics is not good enough, then you might say I don’t believe that E=mc2, Einstein’s most famous equation. People couldn’t believe that atomic energy could be that powerful. Someone did an experiment with the atomic bomb, then people were able to believe it. I am convinced that it can be done, we can have Samadhi. When people do meditation, say, they say they had a “great incense” (45 minutes) because it was like 45 seconds. I wasn’t asleep; I knew exactly what was going on. This is of course the first part of Samadhi. I personally haven’t had that feeling. When meditating, the very first stage is when you get eight feelings (ba chu): sometimes you get so hot, cold, shake uncontrollably, itchy, or wet from sweating– those are first steps. Last year we went to Chung Tai, someone in our group had one great incense period. Now we say, “I wish you have several good incenses.”

You do see people, who can sit for three hours until lunch time. The most famous grandmaster in Chinese Buddhism, Shu In, our Grandmaster’s teacher’s teacher. Books are written on him. I think it is modern enough, so that it cannot be a lie, how could it be? The story is he was cooking yams and started meditating and went into Samadhi, by the time he woke up – at least a month without moving, the mold on the yam was this long (showing about a foot apart with hands).

Of course, we also read that when Bodhidharma [from India]came to China, he met Emperor Liang, and they didn’t see eye to eye. At that time China did not have Zen Buddhism but other kinds of Buddhism. The emperor said, “I am supporting more than 20,000 monks, and I built many monasteries. How much merit do I have?” “None,” Bodhidharma had told him. “You are building a marriage but that marriage won’t take you to Nirvana. It will give you a good life in the future. You may still be an emperor but you will still come back because you are not an arhat or a bodhisattva, and you haven’t eradicated all your vexations. The emperor was mad and ended the conversation.

Bodhidharma said, “The time is wrong, I have to wait for the right time, the right condition to preach Zen.” He went to a Shao Lin temple and sat facing a wall in a cave for nine years. History did say the monk who first discovered him, announced to others that he saw an Indian monk who had come to our monastery, then sat in a cave as months went by and they hadn’t seen him go out. Finally Bodhidharma’s story was told to the emperor.

‘What Bodhidharma said may be right,’ the teacher of the emperor admitted. After a couple of months, the Emperor listened to the head monk and ordered his General to go to the Shao Lin Monastery and invite Bodhidharma to come back. The General went to cave and summoned him. But no response. His soldiers tried but couldn’t move him. Then they tried to tie him up and pull him out with a horse, but this was unsuccessful. This is something even unthinkable; if we don’t eat or drink for a week, we would probably die, and not live for months, years . . . nine years. That kind of thing is exactly like bacteria that can kill, no body believed it before the knowledge was known, before the microscope was invented, nobody believed it.

 

To be continued…