Continued from Part1.

CC: Can you tell us something about your journey to Chung Tai Monastery? Why was that trip important to you and why others might want to take that journey?

JW (Julia Wang): Going to Chung Tai was like going home to your roots seeing your family and relatives. I have never seen such a huge monastery before and so many Dharma Masters. Compared to the one or two hundred participants we have here at Buddha Gate, we participated in ceremonies with 5,000 to 10,000 people. You feel differently. We got a chance to visit meditation centers. Everyone is treated so warmly.  For the last two years, we have participated in the Zen meditation retreats once a year.  At the meditation retreat it is a blessing that for seven days you don’t talk. You live in a pure world. You don’t think of other things. Eat, sleep, and meditate. The Grand Master comes to give a talk. If you have ten days, and if you can afford to buy the airline tickets, give it a try. It’s a different world.

There is also the holding of the precepts.  You look at all the monks and nuns, and you listen to a talk by the Grand Master. You visit other branches and do some sightseeing. You get this feeling inwards that Buddhism is really deeply rooted in Taiwan. When you come back, you want to do this for Buddha Gate. We do this strictly for Buddhism so Buddhism can last. I’m sure you if you look at people who do this, they don’t do this in terms of gaining merits. Merit is something you can’t see. They do this to spread Buddhism, same as us, and they benefit by knowing Buddhism. Going to Chung Tai indeed broadens your perspective of Buddhism.

CC: You talked about causality as the primary approach to some of the issues and problems that come up in one’s life. Are there sutras such as the Heart Sutra you can turn to when you’re struggling with a problem?

FW (Francis Wang): I often feel there are sutras for bodhisattvas, and there are sutras for lay people. We can learn from the bodhisattva’s sutra, that is our goal, but it’s difficult to achieve. Like the Diamond Sutra where there is no I, you, him, or it. If there is no I, there is no you. Let’s face it: we are in kindergarten. Being an arhat is like a college graduate. Remember that an arhat has no I anymore.

The point is for eons we are in this realm: we have this ego, and we have not gotten out of reincarnations. The first level after you get out of this realm is an arhat who has no I, and an arhat doesn’t come back any more. So for eons, why are we in this realm?  Because we have an ego, and as long as we have an “I,” we will remain in this realm. People might say, ‘if there is no  I, what am I doing here and why do we practice Buddhism?’  As long as we have a distinction, we will continue to say a person’s name, to say he’s tall, bald, handsome, has a nice suit, think about how he gets along with his wife. As soon as we see an object, we will continue to have a second thought, a third thought, and so on. An arhat has one thought so when he sees “a table lamp” for example, the arhat will say, “Oh table lamp” and that’s it. We can’t do that. For me, I just want to think what that lamp is for and so on…

CC: Can we say that in order for us to attain wisdom, we have to suffer?

JW (Julia Wang): I don’t agree with that statement ‘in order to have wisdom we have to suffer’. We have suffered first, and our wisdom was found. We were not able to see it. That is why we suffered. We need to open our mind, to open the gate to get the wisdom and get rid of the suffering.

FW (Francis Wang): The reason we suffer is because of the greed. Also you go one step further we suffer because we have an “I.”  If you don’t have I…who is suffering?

CC: This is really abstract.

FW (Francis Wang): I know. That’s why it’s hard. For us to understand no I, is impossible. Some sutras were based on no I. Buddha was talking about what happens if you have no I. It’s like Buddha teaching graduate school and telling you what you should learn.  For kindergarteners, we ask what do you mean…hmm, calculus, what is that?  Ultimately, understanding the sutras is our goal. I know I’m not there yet. In the Diamond Sutra, one of Buddha’s disciples is asking Buddha for advice to bodhisattvas. How should bodhisattvas practice and cultivate becoming a buddha.  Bodhisattvas still have vexations, of course much more subtle than our vexations; there are ten levels of bodhisattvas and four levels of arhats. And six realms of reincarnations. There’s a lot more to go. Only thing that has helped me is causality.

CC: What are the tenets in Buddhism that help you in your daily life?

FW (Francis Wang): I would say treat your parents with respect. I told my children when they got married no matter who they marry, we always want to say, “no.” But what do we know. There are couples that match perfectly and later they get a divorce, and there are couples who just don’t seem to be matched at all and the marriage lasts 50 years. So what do we know from the surface. Now I know it is causality. There’s just one piece of advice I can give that you can remember easily.  Just watch how he or she treats his or her parents: if they treat their parents with respect, most likely they will treat you with respect too. If they don’t respect their parents, then forget it.  They aren’t going to respect you.

There is no one who cares for you more than your parents. So no matter how much love you have for the other person, after the initial honeymoon is over, then you go back to the relationship that is not based on the physical. Now if you do treat him nicely, would he treat you nicely? See how he treats his mother. If he doesn’t treat her with any respect, he probably won’t respect you either.

Buddha tells his disciples, respecting parents is the most important thing. There is the Sutra of Profound Kindness of Parents. We always recite this Sutra for Mother’s Day. The loving kindness that parents gave us, we can never repay.

If you have a deep belief in causality, you will come back to this. Any moral conduct in Buddhism is broadly covered in terms of causality.

CC: What can you advise about encouraging family members to join us?

JW (Julia Wang): I consider myself very lucky. Francis is good about talking about Buddhism so we can always get together to discuss things. When I get in trouble, he is always able to talk to me, so that is why I encourage all participants at Buddha Gate to bring your thoughts here to share with others. Though it can’t be done in one day, encourage also your spouse to come gradually. If they don’t come to a ceremony, just have them come to do some volunteer work. Gradually the person will change. I saw that in myself.

FW (Francis Wang): Don’t start with the ceremony; nine out of ten get turned off. Ceremonies go deeper especially when they are chanting the mantras in which they try to help the hungry ghosts and sentient beings in the other realms that we don’t even see or know. We only know two – animal and humans. Yet we are helping them. Many times we chant the mantra, those are secret words to the hungry ghosts, and by saying the mantra, his suffering is relieved.  So  if you don’t understand the function of a mantra in Buddhism, these notions may be perceived as a joke. A great place to start is with volunteer work such as trimming trees or weeding, where they can see immediate results since trees and the environment will look better after their effort.

JW (Julia Wang): After six months, one year, encourage them to come to the beginning class. You have to start slowly. At first I was against coming to the monastery. When the time is right, they can gradually accept. Since I went through this, I believe it can happen.

Before we end, I want to say that for me and for Francis, we really appreciate and thank the Grand Master for starting the Buddha Gate Monastery here and sending the best Dharma Masters, Jian-Sheng Sifu, Jian Pin Shi Sifu, Jian Lu Sifu, and Jian Jian Sifu to Buddha Gate to teach us Buddhism step-by-step. We really benefited from this. It has changed my life. I hope the other participants will benefit from this place and that it will continue to open their minds. I just want to share that with everyone.